Two Dogmas of Veganism

13 Nov 2011
November 13, 2011

I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for more than ten years, and more recently, maybe a year and a half ago, I started a gradual transition to veganism. For the past year I’ve been more or less vegan — ‘more or less’ because I’ve still made a few exceptions in cases where vegan food simply wasn’t available, e.g. when travelling or visiting old relatives. In addition, I find that the typical definition of veganism is wanting: if interpreted in the strictest possible fashion, no one, and I mean no one is or could be vegan. So, although I still use some leather products which I acquired before I started the transition to veganism, and even though I still consume some things, such as beer and wine, which have been produced with animal derived products, I belive that I can legitimately call myself vegan. Veganism, as I understand it, comes in degrees.

The usual, brief definition of ‘vegan’ is as follows (from Merriam-Webster):

Definition of VEGAN
: a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products; also : one who abstains from using animal products (as leather)

This definition leaves things rather open, but it does appear to suggest that abstaining from the use of animal products is optional, so the primary definition is dietary. In fact, from Wikipedia, we can find a number of different definitions:

Veganism is the practice of eliminating the use of animal products. Ethical vegans reject the commodity status of animals and the use of animal products for any purpose, while dietary vegans or strict vegetarians eliminate them from their diet only. Another form, environmental veganism, rejects the use of animal products on the premise that the industrial practice is environmentally damaging and unsustainable.

I identify most with what is here being called environmental veganism, as my primary motives are ecological, but I sometimes also cite health reasons. A somewhat stranger motivation, which I’ve heard other people cite as well, is the ‘challenge’ of being vegan — I simply wanted to have a go at veganism and see how it would work out, given that being near-vegan for so many years was relatively easy. All of these definitions leave some important questions open though. I will mostly be taking issue with the so called ‘ethical veganism’.

The two dogmas of veganism that I’d like to discuss in this post concern the neglected degrees of veganism, and the derivative definition of veganism. They are related, because by considering the derivative definition of veganism one cannot avoid realizing that a sharp boundary, degreeless ‘black or white’ understanding of veganism is not sustainable. However, they are also distinct, because the issues concerning the derivative definition are largely independent of moral philosophy, whereas the sharp boundary understanding is driven almost exclusively by ethical considerations. Veganism, or vegetarianism, for that matter, cannot be a ‘black or white’ issue, nor can a thoroughly derivative definition of veganism be sustained. What I mean by the lack of a sharp boundary is that one can be more or less vegan, rather than just vegan or not-vegan. What I mean by the derivative definition is the idea that veganism requires complete avoidance of not only the products that contain animal products, but any product that has been produced in such a way that it has been in contact with animal products, has been manufactured with animal derived products, or has caused direct or indirect harm or suffering to animals.

Milk is Murder?

Milk is Murder?

If it weren’t for these two dogmas of veganism, I would probably have adopted a vegan diet much earlier — after all, during my ten+ years as a lacto-ovo vegetarian, I don’t think I ever bought any eggs, and I replaced milk products with soy/oat products a long ago simply because I much prefer their taste (and they tend to be healthier). One reason why I thought I’d write this post is due to my irritation of those militant vegans who attempt to motivate veganism by uttering phrases like ‘milk is murder‘, or otherwise guilt tripping vegetarians and omnivores alike. Much of this is due to understanding veganism as an ethical stance, and hence vegans seeing themselves as taking a moral high ground. We’ve all seen it: people who think they’re better than you because of their superior moral attitude — this doesn’t apply just to veganism, it’s quite typical in holders of any ethical stance which they see as a sharp boundary issue, religious fundamentalists being one of the most obvious examples. Unfortunately, rather than promoting veganism as a positive choice, such militant vegans are likely to alienate those of us who are not convinced by such juvenile arguments. So, it is my hope that by diffusing the two dogmas of veganism, it will be easier for people to adopt the diet. Note that I am consciously avoiding the use of the verb ‘convert’ here, as it would seem to have connotations that are associated with the two dogmas.

There *may* be sharp boundaries in football.

There *may* be sharp boundaries in football.

The Dogma of Sharp Boundary
Meat is murder, milk is murder, honey is murder, leather is murder, isinglass is murder, and — presumably — any vegetable from plants fertilized with animal derived products, or sprayed with pesticides, is murder. We can already see how this is related to the second dogma, but let me focus on the ethical issues for now and address the dogma of derivativeness later. The dogma of sharp boundary suggests that either you are a proper, full-blown vegan, or you are a murderer. We may be able to define, by stipulation, a sharp boundary regarding, say, whether a football is in the goal or not (does it count if it’s on the line?), but doing so in the case of moral issues is not so easy. Two immediate problems emerge. Firstly, it is unclear what ‘full-blown’ vegan means — this is closely related to the derivative definition of veganism. Secondly, the superior moral attitude suggested by ‘vegan or murderer’ calls for some kind of justification, which is very rarely given. Since the first problem will be discussed later on, I will address the broader issue concerning moral philosophy first.

PETA's Meat is Murder campaign in NYC, image ripped off from http://ayshfi.wordpress.com/

PETA's Meat is Murder campaign in NYC, image ripped off from http://ayshfi.wordpress.com/

The infamous ‘meat is murder’ phrase and its derivatives are of course inspired by the anti-anthropocentric idea that humans are in no way special, and animals should be treated as our equals; hence, killing an animal, or causing suffering or harm to an animal is just as bad as doing so to a human being. The idea itself is worth supporting, but it is questionable whether it has the moral implications suggested by some ethical vegans. For one thing, the notion of ‘murder’ has legal connotations which are in no way related to killing or harming animals. Imposing this type of moral constraint on others is where things get especially suspicious though — and where the rhetorics start to resemble those of religious fundamentalism.

While it’s not very difficult to motivate anti-anthropocentricism to the extent that we should not consider ourselves entitled to cause undue suffering to non-human animals, it’s much trickier to establish criteria for ‘undue’ in a world where it is considered acceptable to exploit our fellow humans in all sorts of ways, especially those who are physically removed from us, i.e. people in third world countries. This is of course not a reason to give up one’s anti-anthropocentric ideals, but it is a reason to get one’s priorities straight: as long as there is wide-spread exploitation of other humans, it’s a utopistic idea to remove the suffering of non-human animals. So, one must be careful here: a vegan taking this type of attitude should presumably aim for the least total suffering for any animal, human and non-human alike — even if this would entail causing harm or suffering to animals in some situations. Or, if such a utilitarian conclusion is too much, at the very least the ethical vegan owes us an explanation as to how the sometimes opposed goals of eliminating non-human animal suffering and human suffering are to be reconciled.

A more direct ethical dilemma emerges from observations of the non-human animals. If we take the anti-anthropocentric ideal seriously, then it is difficult to justify strict moral standards for humans where there are none for non-human animals: no non-human animal would hesitate to take advantage of an animal of a different species, or, at least most of the time, even of a member of the same species (as long as they are not immediately related, and sometimes even regardless of that). The usual reply to a concern of this sort is that some animals need meat to survive, or do not know any better. But as soon as it is acknowledged that humans have the ability to sustain moral standards where non-human animals do not, the anti-anthropocentric argument collapses: it appears that, after all, humans are somehow superior to non-human animals. Without this argument, there is little left in the arsenal of the ethical vegan to motivate complete abstinence from animal derived products.

There are, of course, plenty of good reasons to think that animal derived products should be avoided, completely independently of the anti-anthropocentric argument. These are the reasons which are one of the primary sources of my own choice to adopt a vegan diet — mostly ecological and health reasons, driven by sustainability and the avoidance of catastrophies caused by the consumption of animal products and the close proximity of humans and animals associated with it, such as the Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease and Avian influenza.

A Sad Cow?

A Sad Cow?

Even if there were some way to address these ethical dilemmas, there are still empirical questions that need to be considered. The ethical stance that motivates the dogma of sharp boundary is based on the idea that animals are sentient beings that feel pain and it is wrong to cause pain or suffering to sentient beings. There are numerous issues with this idea. Firstly, research on animal consciousness, although abundant, is far from conclusive, there are arguments both for and against animal consciousness, which need not be re-iterated here, not to mention the philosophical problems surrounding the notion of consciuousness more generally. As the interesting Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy article which I’ve linked to in this paragraph suggests, it is the wide acceptance of the following biconditional which spurs our interest in animal consciousness:

Animals deserve moral consideration if and only if they are sentient (especially possessing the capacity to feel pain).

The ethical vegan should of course give us some reasons to believe this biconditional (or at least the left-hand side of it), but also case-by-case reasons to think that different kinds of animals indeed are sentient and capable of feeling pain. While this may appear to be quite easy in the case of mammals, the jury is still out there in the case of most invertebrates, and especially insects, reptiles, amphibians, and fish. But even a positive result in all of these cases would not be enough to support the ethical vegan’s stance, for a case would also have to be made for the suffering of cows used solely for dairy production, bees for honey, silkworms for silk, and so on. All of these cases are extremely complicated, yet detailed arguments in defence of the ethical stance that they are supposed to motivate are sparse.

The Dogma of Derivativeness
Moving on to the dogma of derivativeness, finally. The issue is perhaps less complex, but at least as pressing. What I mean by the ‘derivative definition of veganism’ is the definition which requires complete avoidance of any product that contains or has had contact with animal products at any stage of the manufacturing process, or has been produced with the assistance of animal derived products, or could be considered to exploit or otherwise harm animals in any other way. Now, this is one broad definition. Yet, it seems to be what the standard definition of ethical veganism implies.

Beer -- there's something fishy about it...

Beer -- there's something fishy about it...

The usual examples of products that would be ruled out by the derivative definition include isinglass, which is derived from the swim bladders of fish and is sometimes used a clearing agent (i.e. ‘fining’) in beer and wine. This is especially prominent in British style cask ales, much less so in kegs or bottled beers. While no or very little of isinglass remains in the final product, drinks made with isinglass are commonly considered non-vegan, and even non-vegetarian. One problem that this causes is the simple fact that it’s sometimes impossible to tell whether a beer or wine has been produced with the help of isinglass. There is a good list of the status of many beers and wines available, but it is by no means comprehensive. Ignorance, it could be argued, is no excuse, but maybe it ought to be…

Refined sugar is another rather problematic case: some, although not all sugar is refined by using animal bone char. This is not generally stated in the packaging, so once again it may be impossible to tell. In any case, no animal products remain in the final product, so sugar can be considered non-vegan only on a derivative definition.

Honey is another case in point. While it is of course animal derived, it is not clear that honey should be considered an animal product according to a dietary definition of veganism. Fortunately, there are online resources (Vegan Action) which get this about right:

Insects are animals, and so insect products, such as honey and silk, are not traditionally considered vegan. Many vegans, however, are not opposed to using insect products, because they do not believe insects are conscious of pain. Moreover, even if insects were conscious of pain, it’s not clear that the production of honey involves any more pain for insects than the production of most vegetables, since the harvesting and transportation of all vegetables involves many ‘collateral’ insect deaths.

Honey Thief?

Honey Thief?

Now we are getting to the core of the matter: if the harm caused to bees during the production of honey constitutes a sufficient reason to consider honey non-vegan, then we are on a slippery slope to considering just about anything non-vegan, including, as suggested here, all vegetables — yes, even the ones you grow organically in your own garden. Every time you rip a carrot out of the ground, you’re quite likely to cause some harm to some insect or another, and you probably squish a good number of them whenever you move about, even if it were just by walking or cycling rather than driving. Recall: ignorace is no excuse.

It doesn’t stop there. Manure is commonly used as a fertilizer, and it is obviously animal derived. Pesticides of various kinds are essential for the production of many fruit and vegetables; even organic food production uses natural pesticides, and they don’t harm just insects, by the way. The list is endless, of course. A quick sweeping argument can be established with fossil fuels, which, in addition to being (partly) animal derived themselves, involve the deaths and suffering of animals due the manner of their acquisition and transportation. With that we’ve just about covered all aspects of human life, so it would seem that on a strict derivative definition, no human is, or ever was, or ever could be vegan.

It’s not surprising that the ranks of even ethical vegans are not quite consistent on these issues. As the Wikipedia article on veganism states:

There is disagreement among groups about the extent to which all animal products, particularly products from insects, must be avoided. Neither the Vegan Society nor the American Vegan Society consider the use of honey, silk, or other insect products to be suitable for vegans, while Vegan Action and Vegan Outreach regard that as a matter of personal choice.

Giving Up the Dogmas
Clearly, the derivative definition of veganism cannot work if it is interpreted strictly, so some kind of a compromise is necessary. But where do we draw the line? The dogma of the sharp boundary is of no help here, as we have seen. I believe that the best option is to not draw a line at all: veganism comes in degrees. You can call yourself a vegan even if you occasionally consume or use animal derived products — it should only be required that you avoid unnecessary consumption or usage of animal derived products, to the best of your knowledge and ability. There is no sharp boundary, even if your motivations are ethical.

For my part, I think it is perfectly acceptable to consume and use animal derived products in situations where abstaining from them would cause severe complications, be them ecological or personal. There are areas and situations where it would simply be impossible to engage in anything like a vegan diet as it is usually understood. In some locations, especially in third world countries, keeping live stock is both ecologically sustainable and economically necessary. This is no reason for those of us who have the option not to do our best to abstain from using animal derived products, but even in this case, I consider global ecological considerations to be prior to any personal ethical stance. If being vegan means that you have to use products that come from unsustainable sources or are imported from exotic locations, then your global ecological impact might in fact be smaller if you instead used locally produced animal derived products. It all comes in degrees.

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9 replies
  1. T says:

    Oh I’ll have to come back and read this – having just consumed the whole of the Sunday paper I can’t focus any more. But interesting stuff, the bits I skimmed through. I’ll just pipe in with my own experiences: I’m one such who finds veganism difficult because of the strict lines. I refuse to give up wool. In the eyes of some, that makes me absolutely a non-vegan. I don’t tolerate soy very well (and I mostly have no problem digesting dairy and eggs), and I sometimes (more often now that it’s colder) find myself craving protein, so…I wish it was easier to source these ethically, but I do what I can and try to remain conscious of what I’m craving, why and how much. Also, for my particular, personal health reasons I’ve been prioritising glutenfree over vegan (finding something that’s both and that you haven’t made yourself is *hard*). How does one equate the ethical considerations with environmental ones? Eating locally grown vegan food in Finland is doable, just, but rather monotonous and means no sight of fresh greens for months and months. Ethics over health? To preserve my sanity, I’ve opted for (GF) “vegetarian” where I have to define myself and try to make vegan choices when practicable. For now. But more and more I’ve started to resent these boxes and labels. I just try to make the best choices I can. Adhering to a dogma only induces constant guilt and makes me more likely to want to break free from it. I’d like my food to be a happy, free choice rather than dictated by pressure groups. Otherwise what joy is there in life? (Pardon the rambling, it’s just something I’ve had to think about recently but haven’t come to any satisfactory conclusions.)

  2. T says:

    By the way, what’s the new font called? Haven’t seen it before. :)

  3. Tuomas says:

    Thanks T. I do feel that many would-be vegans are put off by the sharp boundary that is commonly postulated. But a closer look will certainly reveal that such a boundary is nowhere to be found, it has just been stipulated. Wool is indeed another good example of a vague case.

    I could mention in this connection that my argument does not suggest that ‘no borders’ entails ‘no reason to be vegan’ — this seems to be how some people read this type of suggestion. There are, as I state in this post, plenty of good reasons to adopt a vegan diet and avoid animal derived products as much as possible. It’s just that there are no simple ethical considerations available that would justify drawing the line here rather than there. And the worst possible ‘argument’ is the guilt tripping that you mentioned as well…

    As to the font, it’s aptly called ‘Philosopher’. I’m using the Google Fonts package for the body and some of the titles, so many of these aren’t standard fonts. I’m still working on the layout and appearance though.

  4. Chris Shoebridge says:

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and reasons, Tuomas. It was interesting and thought-provoking reading.

    I am in agreement with you that strictly speaking, absolute veganism is an impossible ideal (I swallowed a fly on a recent run!) and that we should drawn no arbitrary lines such as around the animal kingdom only, for instance, as doing so would make us rather fundamental considering the continuum of diversity within that kingdom.

    There doesn’t seem to be anything confused or muddled, however, about avoiding animal products ‘as far as is reasonably possible’ (this is the Vegan society’s definition, I believe), when we in the developed world have no need for them and there is a strong possibility that a large proportion of them cause suffering. I think your treatment of ethical vegans was perhaps a little unfair as I’ve not actually met any who fit the stereotype you described. In fact it may even be harmful to the cause of ethical veganism to perpetuate this stereotype.

    Part of the stance you seem to have misrepresented is that ethical vegans wish for animals to be treated as our equals. This is patently nonsense – I can’t imagine pigs or cows voting or chickens being given a minimum wage. A more accurate depiction is ‘the equal consideration of equal interests’.

    You also mentioned getting ones priorities straight regarding our treatment of humans – well, each ethical vegan I personally know is concerned with the well being of human life* as much as sentient nonhuman life, and there is certainly nothing about adopting a lifestyle considerate to humans that requires us to exploit nonhumans, to my knowledge.

    *This is includes regular donations to charities fighting poverty or opposing human trafficking/war, active support and membership of gay rights organisations, feminist organisations, anti-racism movements and so forth. I’m not trying to get to a ‘moral high-ground’ here, just in case that charge is levelled against me! My intention is to undermine the notion that one can’t care about humans and nonhumans at the same time.

    Are you able to give some example scenarios for “the sometimes opposed goals of eliminating non-human animal suffering and human suffering”? Were you speaking of the situation you described where you discussed the use of nonhuman animals in the third world? I can’t speak for everyone but it seems reasonable that if it is necessary for a human being to exploit or kill a nonhuman being to survive then they are justified in doing so. I certainly would not hesitate to kill and eat an animal if I were, for instance, stranded somewhere with no other source of nourishment. This fits within the ethical philosophy of avoiding suffering as far as is reasonably possible.

    Neither my wife nor I are particularly concerned about honey but generally buy agave nectar anyway, as it makes no odds to us and we prefer to give the benefit of the doubt when there is a choice available. Isinglass in beer/wine is something we also do not concern ourselves with when drinking out with friends.

    Just a final thought, is it possible you have charicatured ehtical vegans because of our use of the word ‘animal’? Most people do not really interpret this in the strict biological sense, but rather use it as a shorthand – a kind of maxim – for the sentient nonhumans we typically farm.

    Lastly, I just want to reiterate that I agree that strict definitions of veganism are prone to failure, and that there are degrees of veganism which still entitle one to consider oneself vegan – this is obviously necessary if there is to be such a thing as ‘veganism’ at all.

    I apologise if my comments seem out of place or I have misunderstood anything you were trying to get across =)

  5. Tuomas says:

    Thanks for your thoughtful comments Chris.

    Avoiding animal products ‘as far as is reasonably possible’ is indeed a much better way of putting things, and if that’s how we define veganism, then I have little quarrel with it. Of course, what is ‘reasonable’ is still open to debate, and I’m a little bit concerned that sometimes people decide this on an emotional rather than rational basis. Be that as it may, that’s close enough to the understanding of veganism that I ended up suggesting myself.

    I admit to being a little bit provocative in my discussion of ethical veganism. However, I have actually met numerous vegans who do fit this description, or simply refuse to debate the matter of sharp boundaries — some kind of an emotional ‘gut’ reaction is what I’ve encountered quite often. Of course, that doesn’t mean that ethical veganism couldn’t be a consistent position.

    I didn’t mean to suggest that ethical vegans would require animals to be treated as our equals in all respects, but it seems to me that as soon as we acknowledge that humans have some sort of priority over animals, be it in terms of rationality or the capability of making moral choices, the criteria for reasonable avoidance of animal derived products starts to slip. For one thing, this may open the door for treating more human-like animals, such as mammals, differently from less human-like animals. So, my concern is that things do start to get quite muddled here — unless there is some quantifiable property that we can pick out when we make judgements about animal rights, then I don’t see what the basis of those rights is supposed to be. Sentience is usually offered here, but that’s a hugely problematic concept in itself. Same goes for all typical options, like self-awareness. So, ultimately this comes down to the animal consciousness debate, which is far from settled and hence can’t really serve as a solid basis for an ethical stance. (Admittedly, these issues are not clear in terms of humans either.) Things are much more straightforward when considered from a global or holistic ecological perspective.

    As to the dilemma of human vs. non-human animal suffering, the primary example I had in mind is the type of scenario that you refer to. There could be others though. I’m mainly concerned that an ethical stance which may only be viable in rich western countries is being generalized. But let me give you a very real example where you might have to make a decision like this: some of the charities that you could contribute to might use their funds to setup, say, a slaugterhouse (or some means to keep livestock etc.) in a third world country. By contributing to such a charity, you seem to violate the ethical stance, but abstaining from a contribution might mean that more people in third world countries suffer from malnourishment. Neither of the options seems ideal, but now you would somehow have to decide which is the lesser evil. This seems like a challenging task to me.

    For the record, I also use, and prefer, agave nectar or something similar, even in terms of taste. Honey is unfortunately quite predominant though. However, my own motives are a little bit mixed here; at least maple syrup actually has a larger ecological footprint than honey: http://bit.ly/rSgU6L — there are also both ecological and, I suppose, ethical aspects to consider with agave: http://bit.ly/uRdW1X (the linked article states that four endangered species of bat are threatened by agave production). So, once again I want to stress how complex these issues are, and how silly it is to draw sharp boundaries.

    I hadn’t thought about the usage of the word ‘animal’, but you’re right in that there seem to be some connotations to it. I’m certainly thinking of the biological definition, which, I might add, is itself highly problematic (there’s a lot of discussion in the philosophy of science about the vagueness of biological taxa).

    I appreciate your input Chris, and I do admit to cutting some corners in this post which you’ve quite rightly picked on. The definition of veganism is an issue that I’ve had on my mind for a while, although at the end of the day we are perhaps dealing with very minor things — I guess we all agree that abstaining from animal products to the extent that it makes sense on an individual level is the most important thing after all!

    I have actually looked into the possibility of doing some (semi-)academic work on these things, although my area of specialization is not at all related. For all I know, there may even be some philosophical literature out there that has tackled the very questions that I’ve raised here, but I’m not familiar with it. If anyone who is reading this knows of such literature, do point it out! I am, of course, vaguely familiar with the work of Peter Singer, but I don’t know whether he has written specifically about these two issues.

  6. Ulrike says:

    I think we discussed veganism quite a few times, and I am still a bit surprised about your strong rejection of the ethical argument. Although I can see one major problem here, that is the strict definition of the ‘capacity of suffering’ combined with the further assumption, that we should use this as an argument to spare animals from being used for our personal advantage.

    I agree on your issue, when following the ethical argument it is easy to do this mistake — putting yourself on a morally higher point over other people. Which is not helpful to anyone, other than ones own personal satisfaction.

    If I pay respect fellow human beings because I believe that this is the way I wanted to be treated myself (could e.g. cite the famous categorical imperative by Kant), and I do this because I am partially capable of sympathizing with their position; and at the same time being aware that animals have at least some capacity for conscious perceptions and suffering as me — I should pay at least a fraction of the same respect to animals.

    So far my point of understanding of the ethics, I hope I don’t come too much across like taking a higher moral standpoint over you.

    Sometimes I get a bit aggressive when I see milk and egg added where it is not really necessary. Also when people get upset about a road kill but not making the connection when buying meat at the supermarket. I don’t want to be patronizing, but I would appreciate if people would be more thoughtful when it comes to issues that are not enhancing their immediate personal comfort.

  7. Tuomas says:

    Well, I’m perhaps not as hostile towards the idea of ethical veganism as it may appear from this post. I just think that people should be very careful indeed when making moral judgements of this type — and especially careful if they plan to impose moral constraints on other people — hence the comparison with religious fundamentalism.

    But none of this is to say that one couldn’t have a defensible ethical stance against harming animals. What I am opposed to is moral absolutism. I think that this should be laid out in terms of ‘minimal harm’ or something to this effect, as Chris seems to suggest, rather than absolution, as some militant vegans argue. (I know of one case in particular: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ — I might do a post about Prof. Francione’s abolitionist approach at some point; he defends the sort of sharp boundaries that I’ve argued against in this post.)

    Any kind of moral absolutism is suspect to my mind. For instance, people’s standards seem to start slipping when considering questions such as torturing terrorists in order to save lives. Note that I’m a conscientious objector myself, and I have suffered from my pacifism in a tangible manner (they put conscientious objectors into prison in Finland). But I still think that absolutism is not the way to go: I would not hesitate to kill another human being to defend my own life, or the lives of those close to me, no matter how much I’m opposed to killing in principle. Much less so would I be prepared to endorse absolutism when it comes to non-human animals.

    However, I strongly oppose killing people just to defend some artificial national borders, or indeed systematically killing animals for food when it is not necessary.

  8. Jay says:

    The foundation of morality has two basis and we all use both. There is the calculation of what will cause the greatest good for the greatest number and then there are generalized absolute laws that are based on these calculations because we can’t be constantly making these calculations. Unfortunately this second kind, leads to people mistakenly believing that ethics can be black and white and furthermore to taking the selfish path for situations that aren’t clear black and white.

    In reality ethics is always a question of degree and it’s really highly unfortunate that our society doesn’t understand this. So many seem to really enjoy mindlessly following absolute ethical laws. Saying “Milk is Murder” is an attempt to appeal to that within us. “Milk causes a greater degree of suffering than rice milk” just doesn’t appeal to people who’s idea of morality consists of “doing the right thing” where the right thing is this black and white mindless following of absolute ethical laws.

  9. Tuomas says:

    Thanks for your thoughts Jay. What you’re describing is of the course the utilitarian model, but the calculations that you mention are notoriously difficult to make, which is why the utilitarian model is not often considered a live option. Anyway, because of the problems with *any* primarily ethically motivated veganism, I would think that ecological and environmental motives would be more popular. I don’t claim to *do the right thing*, I simply urge people to make sustainable choices. Sustainability itself does of course have ethical aspects to it, but it can be motivated just with pragmatic considerations — the only alternative in this sense is utter nihilism.

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